Corona Unmasked: New Facts and Figures a Special Interview with Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi by Dr. Joseph Mercola | 2021 AUG 22
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi and Dr.
Joseph Mercola Video and Transcript
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Welcome
everyone. Dr. Mercola, helping you take control of your health and continuing
to keep you updated and informed on
the COVID-19 pandemic. And in effort to do that we have Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi, who is a microbiologist in Germany. And
we're connecting with them in Germany at this time. So, welcome and thank you for joining
us today.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Thank you for having me.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: So, can you provide us with a little bit of
your background with respect to professional training? You're a microbiologist and maybe run over some
of the academic credentials and affiliations you've had and what you're
doing now?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Well, I graduated from medical school in
Germany. That was back in 1970. And then after a year of clinical work, I joined the Max Planck Institute of
Immunobiology [and Epigenetics] to learn how to do science. And I stayed there for four years as a post-doc where I
began my research in immunology. I researched
the complement system and was involved in identifying the magic bullet of the
complement system, which causes
wrongly transfused erythrocytes to [inaudible
00:01:22]. My first piece of work was done on that. And then it went into
microbiology, bacteriology and discovered that bacteria, most of them, produced similar weapons to use
against us. And that's what set off my career as a microbiologist. So, I ended up chairing the department of
medical, microbiology and hygiene at the University of Mainz where I stayed
for 22 years until my
retirement nine years ago.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay. Well, thank you for that. So, you have a
very prestigious pedigree, the academic history. You're an MD/Ph.D. and for those who aren't
familiar with it, why don't you say a few words about the Max Planck Institute? Because it's one of the
most prestigious institutes
for science in the world.
I believe.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Well, it used to be.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah. So, maybe
tell us where it used to be when you were working and what's
happened since then?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Well, the Max Planck Institute where I was,
was famous because the discoverers of the so-called endotoxin, which is what leads
to septic shock and
death during severe infections was partly discovered there. And that's where the
center of immunology was based at that time. Those were in the ‘70s. And that's why I went there. In fact, it was
also the first institution in Germany where membranes of cells were analyzed to see what was going on
within the membrane itself. And that's how I stumbled across the magic bullet of the complement system
because I discovered that a complement, when it is activated, shoots bullets into the membranes of your cells. And
that's what kills you. Now, all of this is coming
back to, is completing a whole circle in my life, because it now turns out that
the coronavirus is also employing
this method of using our own immune system to the path of self-destruction. And
that is what I think is one of
the major paths to adverse events after vaccination.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yes, indeed. So, you're eminently
scientifically qualified to comment in this area because you've spent the majority of your professional life
studying these issues. So, we're eagerly looking forward to the conclusions you've reached. I think most
of your comments have been directed to the vaccine. I think that's probably a good place to start,
because that seems to be the objective of this whole “plandemic” narrative is to manipulate, brainwash, cajole people into getting the vaccine.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I agree entirely.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah. I mean, this is where we're at and we
need to understand this. And I think you're providing us with an overall perspective will help many
people. Now having said that, I am convinced without any shadow of a doubt we are in the middle of one of
the most effective propaganda campaigns ever engineered in the history of the
human race.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: And as a result of that propaganda and
brainwashing, literally half the population is essentially unable to think rationally or logically when
they're presented with facts. So, we have to understand that many people who need to hear this presented on
a silver platter, will just ignore it and choose to believe it's fake or it's just not correct. So, that's
okay. Because there's half of the people who aren't brainwashed and that's who we're speaking to. So, why
don't you give us your perspective as to what's been happening? I've got a lot of specific
questions, but I'll let you start it off by painting the broad
strokes.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Well, I agree with all of what you said, and I
have actually nothing to add to that. Our whole efforts, our entire efforts, my efforts of my wife,
Karina Reiss and myself are currently directed at providing information about the so-called
vaccination, because we believe that this vaccination agenda and program is the greatest threat to
humanity. The greatest threat that humanity has ever come up against. And it is our duty to aggressively
inform people about the dangers that they are subjecting themselves and their
beloved ones to by this
vaccination.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay. That's a good place to start. And as
again, I want to emphasize that you are more than eminently qualified academically to comment on
this because of your decades of experience in this area. So, why don't you-
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I also worked on development
of vaccines.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Oh yeah. That's another point I wanted to bring
up. You are not anti-vax. I am typically perceived as anti- vax, because I have been opposed to
routine vaccinations for probably over three decades now. And I did provide vaccination immunizations in
my medical practice up until about the early ‘90s, before I began to understand or realize that there
was enormous complications with them. But that is not the position you've taken. You actually are
pro-vax and I suspect you've received most of your vaccinations up to date, but with this one you've
turned around. So, maybe you can expand on that before you go into discussion, because I think many people
will choose to paint
you untruthfully as an anti-vaxxer.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I would modify that a little bit. I certainly
am pro-vax with regards to the vaccinations that work and that are meaningful. And with that, I will
also say tetanus, diphtheria, yes, anytime. However, I have not been pro [to] the recommendations that have
been given. So, I would never say that infants, little children, should
be vaccinated against
diphtheria and tetanus because
they are not endangered. If you say-
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Or hepatitis B, even more insane
at day one of birth.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Yes. Well, exactly. I'm not for that. I would
be for tetanus and diphtheria at the right age, before they enter school, for instance, where the
danger of getting aluminum poisoning has subsided. And I would never go for vaccination of infants with
diphtheria, tetanus and pneumococcal, as they're doing in Germany, creating massive, thousands of
poor children who suffer from aluminum intoxication. So, whereas I say I am pro-vax, I will say so only for the
vaccinations that are really meaningful. And this does not pertain for instance, to influenza, to the flu. It does
not pertain necessarily to shingles and it certainly does not pertain to corona.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay, great. So, thank you for refining that
characterization of your position because I think it's important to do that. And that is a rational perspective, and
it's really hard to argue against it if you're
objective, from my perspective. So, thank you for refining that. So, why
don't we dive into the primary reasons
for your objections to the coronavirus vaccine, which extensively, and maybe I
can dive into a little bit of the
historical perspective, was characterized as being 95% effective or in that
range, because there was a number
of different vaccine
manufacturers out there,
but in a sense, 95% effective.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: And that was essentially a massive statistical
aberration because they conflated relative risk and absolute risk. So, the absolute risk was probably closer to 1%
or 2%. Or even under 1%, I think it was under
1%.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Under 1%.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Under 1%. So, why don't we start there and then
it wasn't for providing immunity or protecting you from infection. It was just at lowering
the symptoms, the severity of the symptoms
that you had.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Which they did not show either.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah, but that's
what they claimed.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: They didn't show anything. They showed
absolutely zero. This is, the ridiculousness, it's so devastating that one doesn't understand that people
don't understand that they're being fooled and have been fooled all along. Let's take the one of these Pfizer trials,
20,000 people were vaccinated and 20,000 healthy
people were not vaccinated. And then they observed over a period of I think, 12
weeks or so, how many cases did they
find in the vaccinated group and how many cases did they find the non- vaccinated? And as you say, what they
found was that less than 1% of the vaccinated group got COVID- 19 and less than 1% in the non-vaccinated
group also got COVID-19. The difference was 0.8% to 0.1%, which is nothing considering the fact that
they were not even looking at severe cases. They were looking at people
with a positive PCR test, which as we all
now know is worthless.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I mean, it's not worth the scrap of paper that
you look at. Plus one symptom, which could be cough or a bit of fever. And that is not a severe case of COVID-19. So, any
vaccination that is going to get authorized
must be shown to protect against severe illness and death. And this has
definitely not been shown. So, forget
authorization. It can't be authorized, not by any normal means. Now you will
come and say, okay, it isn't a full
authorization. It's an emergency authorization, which again is absolute bullshit.
Since we know, since John Ioannidis
has published these numbers that have never been contested by anyone in the world and cannot be contested, that
the infection fatality rate of this disease or virus is not greater than that of seasonal flu. And if anyone
is under 70 years of age and has no preexisting illness, no severe pre-existing illness, he can hardly
die, even if he wants
to, of COVID-19
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: . There is no fatality rate that can be
reduced. There is none. And for people who are elderly and have preexisting illness, as we know from Peter
McCullough and his colleagues' work, there are very good means and medicines to treat this virus so that the fatality
rates go down another 70% to 80%, if they are
treated properly, which means that there is no ground for emergency use
whatsoever, which means that the
FDA (Food and Drug Authority) should be able to be forced to retract this
emergency use authorization unless they are in league with whoever wants to
do this.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Well, they clearly are. And what'd you said is
completely accurate. And just to expand on that a bit to clarify is that one of the qualifications for legally
implementing emergency use authorization measures is that there cannot
be a preexisting treatment
that exists that is an alternative.
And they exist on multiple fronts. I mean, there's at least
half a dozen strategies that one can use to effectively lower [crosstalk 00:15:04].
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I'm completely with you. That's
what I'm trying
to say. So, the whole
thing is ridiculous.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: All right. So, clearly we're both in agreement
too, on the propaganda being used and the effect or the primary objective of the propaganda is to radically increase the
fear, because fear is one of the primary, most
potent motivations to behavior manipulation. And one of the ways they've done
this is to, especially early in
January, when they started collecting the data is to suggest that people who
are getting infected. And there's
such a difference because they call it a case versus COVID-19, which is a radical
differentiation.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: When the fatality rate was dropping, then they
switched. Instead of using deaths, they switched to cases. And most people believe that the cases were equivalent to
deaths. And they're not, obviously. But
what they did is they did some initial studies and collected data in January.
And the data showed that most of the people
who were getting infected were not vaccinated. Big surprise, because they just started the campaign in late December,
but they've maintained that data. And they used statistics from that to all the way six months later,
and their claim was, which was massively propagated on the media is that 99% of the people getting
infected are unvaccinated, which is exact conflict. It's almost the converse. We're looking at 70% to 85% of
most of the studies showing people getting infected now are vaccinated. So, why don't you dive into
that? Because it's an area they massively twisted around to propagandize with misinformation.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I have nothing to add to what you say. Of
course, all of this is manipulative. It's all manipulated. And as you say, if anyone wants to manipulate
something and are in a position to then propagate it, you have no chance of analyzing it and telling
people because we have no voice in this affair and we don't – when we stand up and tell people this, they just turn around
and say that's not the truth.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah. Well, that is the truth. And even they're
admitting it and they're ignoring their previous claims. And then we can look at the experience of some countries that
are even more successful at propagandizing
their populations to convince them to get the vaccine. And I'm thinking of
Israel specifically.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: [crosstalk 00:17:49] not bad. Germany
is not bad.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah. Israel was like 85%, 90% of the
population is immunized. So, we've got, I want to talk at this point too. Because there are three countries,
Israel, Sweden and India, which absolutely destroy their narrative, because first we got Israel, which has been massively vaccinated and getting enormous
amounts of cases.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: They were
forced. [inaudible 00:18:16] you really believe it.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay. Well, I don't, you're probably correct. I
haven't studied the history over there. And then I'm sad if they were forced because that is, which
is somewhat what they're moving into and the position they're moving into in this country for forcing
it. But there's no-fly rule in such. And you cannot go to work. I mean, there are some CNN commentators who
believe that you shouldn't be able to go to the grocery store unless you're
vaccinated.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Yeah. Throw them into
jail.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah. Throw them in the jail. Yeah. But anyway,
so we've got the experience with Israel and they are getting, I believe most of the people, the cases there are
people who have been vaccinated. Then you have
Sweden and India. Well, Sweden, from the perspective that they had no
lockdowns, no masks, no social
isolations. And they have one of the lowest rates ever. And you don't hear any
talk about Sweden anymore because
it disproves what their claims where. If it was the contrary to that, you'd
hear about it every day. In India
has hardly anyone immunized. I don't know if it's just discourteous and it's
very low it's well under 25%, maybe as
low as 10%. And we're not seeing a lot of cases in
India at all.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Well, I talked to Indian colleagues a couple of weeks ago.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay. So, why don't you update us on your perspective
on that?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: And they said that
in, of course, less than 10% of
India's vaccinated, but they're an awful lot of
Indians.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah, over
a billion.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: So, if a hundred million have been vaccinated,
that's a damn lot. And they are in fact seeing very severe cases of true corona infections. And
they are among the vaccinated. What we're witnessing in India and probably also in Israel is the
immune-dependent enhancement of disease, which we have always warned against together with Dolores
Cahill a long time ago. And I think also in our book. It's bound to happen. So, the people who are getting
vaccinated now have to be fearful of the next wave of genuine infections, whether it's corona, COVID-19
relatives or not, or any other coronaviruses, because they're all related and they
will all be subject to immune-dependent enhancement, obviously.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah. So,
I definitely want you to dive deeper into that because you're really well trained and qualified to comment on it. And I like the fact that
you're calling it immune enhancement because I think that's more accurate. Typically for those who are
watching and may appreciate that, typically this is referred to as ADE or antibody-dependent
enhancement, which I don't think is as good as – I like to term PIE or paradoxical because it doesn't make sense.
It does the exact opposite of what it's supposed to do, immune enhancement. So, why don't you discuss what's happening?
Because I think this is the crux and really
forms the foundational basis for your concern. Some of the projections I've
heard you stated earlier as to the outcome of what's going to happen to most of the people who've been vaccinated.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I mean, I will start by saying something that
we've also written in our book, that there are two major arms of defense against infection. One, against viral infection,
one are the antibodies that, if they are present, may prevent the virus from entering the cells. These are so-called
neutralizing antibodies, which the vaccination is supposed to –
yes. But since the antibodies directed against respiratory viruses are not really there at the place that
they are needed, which is on the surface of the airway epithelium. They are in the blood, but not at the
surface of the epithelium where the virus arrives. Most respiratory viruses will be able to enter the lung
cells. And the second arm of immune defense then comes into play. And these
are the lymphocytes.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Now there are different types of lymphocytes
and I will simplify matters by saying the important lymphocytes are the so-called killer lymphocytes that sense
whenever a virus product is being produced in
the cell and they will then come and destroy the cells that harbor the virus
and thus is the factory closed. And
people get well again. That is the mechanism how we can survive viral
infections of the lung. And this
happens all the time. So, the lymphocytes in contrast to the antibodies
recognize many, many, many parts of
the proteins. All right. So, if a virus changes a little bit, it doesn't
matter, because the waste products
that are recognized by the killer lymphocytes remain very similar. And that is
why all of us, and this is now known,
all of us have memory lymphocytes in our lymph nodes and in our lymphoid organs that are trained to recognize these
coronaviruses. And whether or not a mutant is there, it doesn't really matter,
because they will recognize a mutant.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Or variants, is what they're
calling [crosstalk 00:24:14].
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Or variants,
the same, variants. But the
variants you see, aren't really
altered so much.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Right, it's pretty
minor.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: It's extremely little because coronaviruses
can only undergo point mutations. Meaning only one nucleotide at a time can be changed. This is the difference to
flu. The flu virus can completely change its
spike protein by exchanging the spike protein. One virus can exchange
it's spike protein with another virus if two viruses are in the
cell. This sort of shift is not possible with coronaviruses. And therefore you will never have leaps in antigenic
changes either for antibodies or for T-cell killer lymphocytes. And that's why the background immunity, I
don't want to talk about herd immunity, but the background immunity that evolves during the lifetime
of a human being is very broad and very solid. And that's why when the virus enters the body of a
17-year-old, who has not any preexisting illness, the virus is not going to kill that
man or woman.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: It cannot. We are immune. And in fact, this is
the good news. There have been papers appearing in June that have collectively shown that, indeed, our immune system
already knows this new virus and is already
trained in combat with this virus. And this is absolutely clear and conclusive
that evidence is there and anyone can
go and read those papers that have shown that the response to vaccination. If you're vaccinated today, the immune system
immediately responds by throwing out the antibodies that everyone wants. They are already in the treasure trove of the
immune system. Plus the killer lymphocytes
that you need in case the virus gets to the lung. And that is that. In fact,
because these papers have been
published, we now know that the narrative that this virus is new and therefore dangerous
because the immune system cannot recognize it is a lie.
It's wrong.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah, it is.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Proven to be wrong. So, now
we have no reason whatsoever to vaccinate. First of
all – yeah.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Well, let's dive into the herd immunity because
that's the crux of the issue. And I really want to focus on what are the most egregious nullifications
or decimation of medical scientific truths. And that is the concept that unless you have immunity from
the vaccine, you're not protected. It doesn't matter if you've received natural immunity, which is far different, far
superior, infinitely more superior. Let's go
into it. So, I want you, you're so qualified to go into this, this is why
I wanted to discuss it. You had mentioned
these antibodies that are in the blood and not on the epithelial surfaces.
Well, the antibodies are three
types IgG, which is the long-term, IgM, the acute. And then you got secretory
IgA. So, I'm thinking that in the
natural infection you have the secretory IgA but the vaccine does not produce
that, but maybe it does. So, then of
course, you've got the lymphocyte too. So, why don't you expand on that a bit, just to clarify and help us
understand why natural immunity is infinitely superior to a vaccine- induced
immunity?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Well, the antibodies don't really, they're not
enough of them. The struggle between antibodies and virus is a struggle of numbers. So, one
antibody can bind one spike point and once it's bound, it's gone. So, even if you have secretory IgA out there
lining the epithelium, which you do, but you have minuscule amounts of it. That's known, it's
minuscule. The moment the viral load is high, they just overrun. It's that simple.
So, the antibody – so the
virus will always get into the lung just as the flu
does, but then the killer lymphocytes will come and
extinguish the fire. Now, in that process, of course, viruses may enter the blood. When lung tissue is destroyed,
virus may enter the blood, and then maybe the antibodies will play
a protective role by preventing the virus from disseminating via the bloodstream to other organs.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: In fact, it is known that the coronavirus does
not disseminate to other organs. It is known that the spike protein, it can dissociate away and by
itself, on its own, travel to distant sites in the body. And that can also be partly suppressed by antibodies,
probably. But this is not a big deal. The big deal are the lymphocytes, which are the naturally
occurring cells that protect you. And of course, vaccination that is aimed primarily at creating IgG antibodies
in the blood have no way of competing with natural immunity via lymphocytes, no way at all. And the
very fact that the WHO (World Health Organization) has changed the definition of herd immunity to say
that [crosstalk 00:30:27] created by antibodies by vaccination is such a scandal. I'm at a loss of words to
describe how ridiculous I find this all, that this is being accepted by our colleagues. I mean, your colleagues
and my colleagues. How can the physicians and scientists of the world bear to have to listen
to all this nonsense?
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Just to be clear, the killer lymphocytes seem
to be the champions here at providing the bulk of the immune response that's going to protect us against devastating
side effects from the infection. And it's your contention that the COVID
injections do not stimulate killer lymphocyte production.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I did not say that.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay. Well then that's why I asked for clarification. [crosstalk 00:31:25].
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I didn't say that. On the contrary, they will.
However, this is going to be at the expense of the patients, because this is going to create horrible,
adverse side effects. Now, let me just try to tell you what I think. You see, normally this virus will stay
in the lung because it's sort of captured there by the killer lymphocytes. So we have a lung infection
and the lung can recuperate, can recover from this after the virus has gone. What a man is now daring
to do is that he is daring to introduce a viral gene, the gene of dangerous gene into the blood, so that it
gains access to sites that it would never gain access to in normal conditions. And these are two main
sites. First, the lymph nodes, the lymph nodes that drain the muscles. And second, once the genes have
entered the bloodstream, they will enter the cells that line the vessels, which are the endothelial
cells. These are the cells that line all the vessels of our body down to the
capillaries from the big to the smallest.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Can you just, I can just hold you there and
just ask a quick question. The vaccine or the COVID injection jab is injected into the deltoid muscle
into the arm. So, can you just walk us through how it gets from there into the blood?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Yeah, very simple, the path that is well-known
is that it drains to the lymph nodes and things that are in the lymph nodes then go into the
bloodstream. In the case of these nanoparticles, however, there may be another way in, and that is the direct
translocation from the muscle into the small vessels because these lipid packages
[crosstalk 00:33:45] are not only so
small, they have special properties of being taken
up by cells actively and cast out on the other side of the cell. This is so-called
transcytosis, going across a cell.
And this is something that is very poorly defined, but it seems to be taking
place. We know this from animal
data that Pfizer had to submit to the Japanese authorities. They have never
been published in English by the way.
And there they show that these packages, the nanoparticles, appeared in the blood within just one or two hours
after injection, which is so fast that it means that they must have been translated directly from the muscle
into the blood,
which is a horrible thought,
by the way.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Okay. So, when the spikes are made at
forbidden sites, and these sites are the vessels of your body, the vessels of your brain, for instance, one
has to imagine that if once they're sitting in a room, that would be a vessel, then the tapestry would be
the cells lining the vessel. You would have to imagine suddenly spikes coming out of the wall, into the
bloodstream. That's what's happening to all these poor people. All over the body. No one knows where
because no one ever bothered to look. And when this happens, immediately, the killer lymphocytes that
we all have, and that have been trained in combat to recognize corona spike proteins will come and
attack the cells because they think that these cells are infected. It's that straightforward. And we wrote,
actually, in our second book that has only appeared in German, but we wrote this chapter in English too.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: So, it can be downloaded free of charge for
anyone who wants to read it. And what we wrote was that we cannot imagine that scraping the tapestry of the wall will
not have serious consequences. The major one
being that it will provoke clot formation because the moment a vessel is
injured, clots will form. And that's
why that was back in February, we said we were horribly worried that people
receiving these vaccines were going
to suffer from clot formation at sites we did not really know, but in the
meantime, it turns out that that
clot formation is probably one of the major paths to adverse events and
reactions to illness, to death in
all vaccine recipients.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah. So, let's expand on that a bit, because
that's a broad range of types of clots. I mean, you've got the typical type of blood clot we think of
clinically is one that is big enough to occlude really crucial arteries like in the brain or in the heart, the
arteries of the heart. So, you have a heart attack. So, is it that type of clot
or is it much smaller ones? These micro emboli that really-
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Well, both, anything
you want, anything
you want, both. And in fact, pathologists are now starting to see
that. And it's an incredible array of clot formation from tiny clots, micro-thrombosis,
to large clots in deep veins that
lead to pulmonary embolism. Anything you want. Cerebral sinus venous thrombosis
that causes these splitting
headaches and palsies and whatever you want and nausea, vomiting. All these poor people very likely have clots in
their brain vessels that no one is ever looking for. And there's a very simple lab test that tells you where the
clot formation is taking place. And this is the D-dimer [crosstalk 00:38:15]. And we're getting reins of narrative coming in saying,
“Yeah, we found D-dimers in this patient, this patient, they were so high, but no one could explain
where they came from.”
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: So, one gets tired of listening to all of
this, because it was obvious. Now that is one thing. The other thing
that has now emerged is just
as frightening. And that
is that because the immune
system recognizes this spike protein as old, the immune response is very quick.
So, after the first jab, one to two weeks
after that jab, everyone starts making antibodies in large amounts. Now, when
the second jab is done and the spike
proteins start to project from the walls of your vessels into your bloodstream,
it is not met only by the killer
lymphocytes. Now the antibodies are also there and the antibodies activate complement. That was my first field of
research. So, that takes me back to the first years. And this is, my God, over 40 years ago, it is clear that
then, complement, which is the second cascade system in the blood.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: The first cascade system is the clotting
system. Turn it off, the blood will clot. If you turn on the complement system with the antibodies that
bind to your vessel wall, then this complement system will start riddling holes in the vessel wall.
What a horrible thought. And if you go and see these patients who have bleeding in the skin. I don't know
if you've seen any of these patients where I've seen lots of pictures, frank bleeding. And ask, where does that come from?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Say, well, if you go around riddling your
vessel with complement holes, you want trouble, you get it. Now this can happen anywhere, of course.
And if the holes riddle in vessels of the liver, for instance, or the pancreas or the brain, then the blood
will seep through the vessels into the tissues. And what, may I ask the people who are being vaccinated
right now, do you think it's also going to be in the blood that seeps into your liver and brain? Well, the
vaccines, because the vaccines have half times that are days, they are in your bloodstream for at least
a week. And they will seep into the liver into any organ. And when those cells, when the liver cells
then start to make the spikes themselves, then the killer lymphocytes will also seek and destroy
them. What we are witnessing is one of the most fascinating experiments that could lead to massive
autoimmune disease.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: When this happens, God knows. And what this
will lead to, God knows. It will take some time, but okay. And so that's that, but one last thing,
and then I'm almost finished with this vaccine horror. Look at the lymph nodes, the lymph nodes are full of
lymphocytes and other immune cells. When these damn vaccines get to the lymph nodes, especially mRNA vaccines that
are packaged in these lipid nanoparticles,
poison. They're poison to the cells. So, some cells will immediately die upon
contact. Cells that don't die and
take up the vaccine and start to produce the spike are going to be recognized
by their brothers and sisters in
the lymph nodes as virus producers, and they will be attacked. So, this is
paternal war. War between immune
cells against immune cells. That is instigated by man because man dares to introduce
the viral gene to a
place that it should not reach.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: All right. Now, when lymphocytes die in the
lymph node, of course, this is going to cause inflammation. The complement system is also going to
attack and the lymph nodes swell, they are painful and this can stay for weeks on end. My colleagues here
are telling me, “It's so strange, these lymph nodes, they're just swollen and what can happen then?”
The lymphocytes in our lymph nodes, they are our lifelong sentinels and keep latent infection such
as shingles under control. So, when they are gone or when they malfunction, then these viruses that are
sleeping in our body wake up and ravage the body. That's why shingles
after shots or shots
and shingles are telling us a very important story
that no one is
looking into.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: And it is so worrisome that I spent days
reading up, what can happen if you're your sentinel lymphocytes weaken and slacken their grip on dormant
pathologic events. These are viruses such as shingles, herpes, zoster, but also EBV, Epstein-Barr Virus,
CMV, cytomegalovirus in certain countries, toxoplasms, tuberculosis. And of course, tumors. As we all know, tumors are
forming every day in our bodies, but those
tumor cells are recognized by our lymphocytes and then they're snuffed out. So,
I am awfully, I'm just worried sick
that the world is being goaded into taking something into the body that is
going to change the whole face of medicine.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah. We'll get into what your projections are
in a moment, but I want to dive back a bit and go into the paradoxical immune enhancement. And from
what you just said, it seems like the primary explanation for that is that there's a qualitative
difference in the type of antibodies being produced. By that I mean, the neutralizing antibodies that you
referred to earlier, which are useful, but without the killer T-cells or lymphocytes, it's not going to be very
effective. But then you've got this binding antibody, which you just referred to. And the binding antibody,
which binds to the spikes coming out of the endothelial cell walls after the COVID injections is what causes
the problem. So, is it this that's the core of this paradoxical immune enhancement, the differentiation between
the binding and the neutralizing antibodies?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: No, I
don't believe that at all. I think that-
Dr. Joseph Mercola: That's why I'm asking.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: There's no molecular fundament for that
because the enhancement of infection that you see in cell culture
cannot be equated
with any true enhancement in the body. And
when you read these papers, for instance, saying that there's a
discrepancy between findings in cell culture and in animals, you always have to immediately question, “Is the
animal model valid at all?” And the answer is, there have been no valid experiments in animal models to show
anything. In fact, there's no scientific data at all to show whether an antibody can enhance or prevent
the course of infection in the correct animal model, which is the monkey.
And I have no more to say because everything else is
pure speculation.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay. But nevertheless, this paradoxical immune
enhancement exists, and is projected
by many. And I believe including you to be possible for a
large portion of deaths that's going to occur.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I think
that the enhancement is primarily due to lymphocytes.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: That's interesting. That is interesting. So, it's the killer lymphocytes that are responsible for it.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Yes, they are overreactive. You see,
because-
Dr. Joseph Mercola: I've not heard of this before,
and the secondary complement activation.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Yes, also. Exactly.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: But that is on-site. You see when the lung
produces the spike and you have too many antibodies and complement, then of course, there's going to be mass destruction
of lung tissue. And if you have over- reactive
killer lymphocytes, you will also have over-destruction of lung tissue. You see
the whole immune system and how it
works is, I'm a Buddhist, but I will say, it's the work of God. All right. And there's a conductor. It's like an
orchestra playing. And the orchestra always plays the right tune because there's
a conductor saying,
“Okay, this is a virus that is not very dangerous. So, don't play too loudly.
Don't get the trumpets to sound when the violins are enough.” But what the
vaccine proponents are doing is
that they're getting the whole orchestra out of tune and out of tone, and
they're trying to replace the conductor. And this is something that is bound to
lead to doom.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay. So, let's get into that. That's your
projection is bound to lead to doom. So, I suspect you thought about
this at some length and-
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Greatly.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: -have come to some conclusions as to what your
projections might be. Now, obviously there's going to be a range of outcomes. And I'm wondering if you could discuss
with us what the conclusion is that you have reached
on this topic.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Well, the conclusion regarding the vaccines is
very, very simple. The vaccination program must be stopped. Gene-based vaccines are an absolute danger to mankind
and their use at present violates the Nuremberg
codex, such that everyone who is propagating their use should be put before
tribunal, especially the vaccination
of children is something that is so criminal that I have no words to express my horror.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: As we all know, it is laid down by the
Nuremberg codex, that in case experiments are to be conducted in humans, this can only be performed with
informed consent and informed consent means that the person to be vaccinated has to be informed about all the risks, the risk/benefit ratios,
the potential dangerous, and
what is known about side effects. This cannot be done with children because
children are not in the position to
understand it. Therefore, they cannot give informed consent. Therefore, they cannot be vaccinated. If anyone does
that, he should be set tomorrow before a tribunal. If grownups have been informed and want to get the
shot, that's all right. But don't force anyone to get the shot. It has to be by informed consent only.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah, that's it, informed consent is virtually
impossible currently because anything, any attempt to inform people of the negative consequences of the injection of
this substance into your body is essentially
censored. And in many cases it's banned. So, it's a very effective strategy.
So, they're only getting one side.
They're not getting the other side and you can't have informed consent without hearing
both sides.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Yeah. Right. Correct. The parents should now
step in and say, “We will not allow our children to be vaccinated.” And it is almost common knowledge among anyone
who's been thinking about that. That the
risks in pregnancy are bound and we believe that many stillbirths are a result
of these vaccinations. Furthermore,
these vaccines accumulate in the ovaries and testes, and we are horribly
worried that there's going to be an
impact on fertility. And this will be seen in years or decades from now. And
this is potentially one of the greatest
crimes, simply one of the greatest crimes
imaginable.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah. It's certainly the greatest experiment in
human history. It's just unequivocal. There's no doubt about it. So, the first step is if you're watching this is, if
you've gotten the vaccine, you've gotten it.
There's nothing you can do but you certainly don't want to get a
booster. And it looks every bit is what people
were projecting. Many were projecting, actually, is they're going to come up
with booster recommendations. Maybe
once, twice, even three times a year you're supposed to get your booster. So, that's the last thing you want to do is
get another booster injection on this. The more you get, the worse it's going to be, and the more
consequences that you're going to have as a result. So, why don't you expand
on that? And we can, then going to discuss another component.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Absolutely. I mean, there's nothing more to
say. You see the orchestra is being told to play louder and louder and louder. The damage is going
to get worse and worse and worse. In the end, I predict that we're going to see mass illnesses and
deaths among the healthy people who normally would have wonderful lives ahead of
them. Yeah. It's [crosstalk 00:54:15].
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Do you have an idea of the range that you're projecting is that we might have those?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: No.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Because I mean, already, we've got, I mean,
it's hard to tell because there's such a limited databases. We're recording this is close to 13,000,
500,000 adverse events. Some are projecting that a minimum of five times. That is what the actuality is,
because they're just not reported this. And they were six months into this or seven months.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Yeah. So, I'm not a mathematician, but you ask
a computer to do some computing and you'll come up with numbers that are so horrifying that you can't imagine that they can get through with this
program.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: By then it's going to be too late. So, have you
come up with any recommendations for those who've already gotten it? I mean, the primary one is don't get another
one. I mean, that's the number one most important
strategy, but then there's, once people become enlightened and understand that
there's a risk to what they've done
or forced to do for whatever reason, what is their next step aside from not getting
the next one?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: The next step is that they should realize that
if they contact a real infection now in autumn, they have to realize that there are good medicines to
treat the infection. All right. And they should insist that they get it.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay. So, yes, I actually interviewed Dr.
Vladimir Zelenko. And he's responsible for creating many effective protocols. So, in his contention is, is that just like
you stated the time, if you're exposed to this
infection at the very first sign of a symptom, you've got to jump on
this. You literally have like 48 hours before it could be too late. The longer you wait the worse it's going
to be.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: That sounds very dramatic, but you should
do something about it as soon as possible.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Well, it's his experience. I mean, he's got
pretty significant experience in this in the front lines. So, that's what he recommends because of the viral
replication. Exactly what you were saying earlier, the more viral load there is, the worse the problem.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Yes. Well, okay. I don't
think we have to say he said so. Yes, it's fine with me.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah, I know. And there's a wide variety of
different treatments that are available and certainly the conventional ones like ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, and quercetin and zinc.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Sure, sure, sure.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: All right, well, I think that covers most of the
questions I had and I really am deeply appreciative of your lending your expertise and refining some
of my understanding of the pathology that was going on, especially with respect to paradoxical immune enhancement. Do
you have any other comments you'd like to make or reinforce some of the earlier ones you made?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I think
I've said everything I have to say.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay, good. All right. And then the final
question is, you had alluded to the fact that you've written at least one book, maybe two. And I think the
current one is written in German, but you did have one of the most important chapters converted to
English and that's available as a free download. So, how does someone
obtain a copy of
that?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: You go to the publisher, Goldegg.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Can you spell that?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Yeah, it's G-O-L-D-E-G-G.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Goldegg, G-O-L-D-E-G-G. Okay. Dot com
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Put in a Bhakdi or put in “Corona Unmasked.”
Dr. Joseph Mercola: “Corona Unmasked,”
which is the title of your
new book.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Of the
book. Although it's in German,
the title is English. All right.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: It's good.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Going there then to
the left of the book, you will
see a link to an English
chapter.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Okay, perfect.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: That's it.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: And I just have one personal curiosity. You've
been in Germany for what? Four decades.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Yeah, more.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Why don't you have a German accent and what
type of accent do you have? I mean, clearly it's a very pleasant British type of accent.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: I went to an English school and an American school
in Egypt.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Oh, interesting. Okay. So, that explains it.
And you didn't pick up any German accent, that's interesting. So, and you speak German
fluently, I would
imagine.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Yes.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks to you for
all your work and efforts and people will – I look forward to reading
that chapter.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: Please do.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: Yeah, I will. All right, well, thanks again.
Appreciate all your help.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi: You're welcome and goodbye.
Dr. Joseph Mercola: All right, bye.
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